Narvik (NV)

Question:

A question has arisen in Narvik concerning AA fire. Unlike other Europa games Narvik uses an odds-based CRT, the same table is used for both AA fire and air-to-air combat. The table has ratios ranging from 1:4 to 6:1. When firing AA only the defender fires. In air-to-air combat both players exchange fire. Both AA and air combat are done using groupings of up to 5 air units. There are no DRMs for anything.

Our question is as follows – if AA fire results in less than a 1:4 odds ratio does the player roll for results on the 1:4 column or is there simply no chance of a result?

AA Example: 2 AA factors fire on a group of attacking planes with 10 air defense factors. This is a 1:5 odds ratio. Does this fire use the 1:4 column or is the fire ineffective (not rolled)?

Answer:

How are Odds columns determined when resolving AA fire in Narvik? There is no way to answer this definitively given the wording of the ambiguous Narvik rules without knowing the design intent. I have no idea what the design intent was here. This is one (of many) items I brought up to Winston Hamilton re the Narvik rules when Storm over Scandinavia was done. Winston said the Narvik rules were perfect and needed no update; he was the boss then so I dropped matter. Your current Narvik game is the FIRST playing of the game where any questions have been asked about the Narvik rules since then that I am aware of. Having said that, I’ll still take a stab at answering your question.

Per Narvik rule 14 (antiaircraft fire) you “Total the strengths firing, and resolve the attack on the air-to-air CRT, using the antiaircraft strengths as air attack strengths”. Then, per Narvik Rule 12E3 (Air-to-Air Combat Resolution): “The intercepting player totals all air attack strengths of his wave and compares that number to the total air defense strengths of the enemy wave. This is converted to an odde ratio corresponding to one on the air-to-air combat results table, rounding down in favor of the defender.” For AA fire this then means you total all the AA strengths of the one side and compare that number to the total air defense strength of the opposing wave to get a ratio, rounding the number down in favor of the defender. Nothing in rules or chart spelling out how odds under 1:4 are handled (or how odds over 6:1 are handled).

Wording in Narvik Rule 12E3 that “this is converted to an odds ratio corresponding to one on the air-to-air combat results table” would seem to imply that every potential antiaircraft fire MUST be resolved on one of those columns (implying then that odds less than 1:4 are resolved at 1:4). However, the immediately following verbiage “rounding down in favor of the defender” would also allow for arguing otherwise.

So either interpretation can be justified, I think. If you can’t decide among yourselves which one to use and want an outside party to choose, I would say AA fire in Narvik that is calculated as being at less than 1:4 odds is resolved using the 1:4 column as I strongly suspect that was the design intent given my vague memory of my one playing of Narvik (with Winston – who effectively was the “designer” for the update of Narvik in SOS) where I’m pretty sure that was the way it went.

Source:

Posted byArthur E. Goodwin on the Yahoo Europa Mailing list on 26.07.2013 18:26.

Question:

The rules allow airdropped paras and air landed units to move 1 hex. The airbase adjacent to Stavanger is 1 hex out of regular range of German based Ju52s. So, paras drop 1 hex short, move to the airbase, capturing it. Then two Bns of Infantry airland in the air return phase. Can this infantry then advance to Stavanger and initiate a battle or is this a leapfrog too far?

Answer:

This does not seem to be possible. The para unit per 19E gets its one hex movement in the air phase “immediately prior to the combat phase.” This cannot occur before the air return step, as then it would NOT be occurring “immediately prior to the combat phase.” So, the para unit can only move (and thus capture the airbase) after all air units have returned to airbase, so the air transports with the inf battalions are no longer around to land.

Source:

Answer posted by John Astell at Yahoo Classic Europa mailing list on 16.07.2013 23:40.

Question:

On the first turn German units are allowed to exploit 1 hex if they land in a hex occupied by Norwegian units that retreat before combat. In order to use this capability did ALL the Norwegians have to retreat or only 1 Norwegian retreated.
Example: Trondheim and Oslo both contain 2 Norwegian units. If one stands and the other retreats before combat what can the Germans do in their exploitation phase?

Answer:

All Norwegian units must retreat from the hex in order for the German
units there to get the 1-hex exploitation move. (If even one Norwegian unit
remains in the hex, all Germans units there engage in combat with it
instead.)

Source:

Answer posted by John Astell at Yahoo Classic Europa mailing list on 16.07.2013 23:40.

Question:

The rules are fuzzy on when general supply is traced. I am assuming this is done after reinforcements are placed, and only at this time. An airdropped German supply depot would not provide General supply until the beginning of the next Norwegian player-turn. Correct? Also assuming all units in staging boxes/at sea are in general supply. Correct?

Answer:

I see no rule that requires general supply to be traced at one time and only one time per player turn. Instead, unless I am missing something and am not recalling my playings of the game correctly (both are possible), general supply is traced as needed. If you are about to do something with a unit, you check its general supply status. For example if you are about to move a unit in the movement or exploitation phase, you check its general supply
status at that time. If you are about to attack an enemy unit, you check its general supply status at that time.

This situation is similar to attack supply. Note that a German depot airdropped in a turn can be used for attack supply. It is also available for general supply. Note that since the air phase comes after the movement phase, air dropping a depot won’t help put German units into general supply during the movement phase. However, if the depot is still present during the exploitation phase, then German combat/motorized units could use it for
general supply.

Also note that Rule 11 specifically gives an example of a British unit going out of general supply DURING a German player turn (presumably as a result of German actions in the turn).

Finally, note that going out of general supply has no effect on a unit until its second [game] turn of being out of general supply. Thus, the only practical consideration here is if a unit that is already out of general supply gets back into general supply in a turn. Example: A German c/m is in its second game turn of being out of general supply. During its movement
phase, it has its movement rating halved per Rule 11. However, it moves so that it ends its movement phase in general supply. During the exploitation phase, if this is still the case, the unit is now in general supply and has its full movement rating for exploitation movement. (There is a gray area here: When the c/m moved back into a region where it could trace general supply during its movement phase, did it regain its full movement rating? Answer: No.)

Question:

Are airdrops and transport missions subject to AA? In one place the rules seem to indicate airdrops are, in another place it only talks about AA against bombing missions. For example, the Germans hold Trondheim. The Allies placed an interdiction marker (8 AA) and 2 CLA (5 AA each). If the Germans try to airdrop or air transport a supply depot into Trondheim would all 3 naval units fire AA, only the CLAs, or none?

Answer:

Spot checks of Rule 12A (air sequence) and Rule 14 (AA Fire) indicate that AA fire occurs against mixed waves, with the restrictions that 1) naval units may only fire on mixed waves bombing ships, ports, or supply bases and 2) AA units may fire on any mixed waves except those bombing ships. Air transports on air transport or air drop missions will be in mixed waves (per 12E1) and thus can be fired on by AA units but not ships. I think this is clear and do not wish to take the time to read through all of the rules to see if one says AA can ONLY be fired against aircraft on bombing missions. If you can list any specific rules that says AA can ONLY be fired against bombing missions, I will review this.

Source:

Answer posted by John Astell at Yahoo Classic Europa mailing list on 16.07.2013 23:40.

Question:

Can the Germans trace general supply across the Swedish border to the
captured supply depot that they get in Sweden on turn 2 or must that depot
be in Norway to act as a supply source?

Answer:

No German unit at all can trace supply TO any depot anywhere at all! See Rule 11B1, 1st paragraph, 2nd sentence: You trace supply FROM a depot TO a German unit. Perhaps the question was phrased fuzzy? ;-)

The German player may trace supply FROM the special “captured” depot to German units, even if this depot is in Sweden. (Historically, the depot in effect always remained in Sweden and thus was crucial to the Germans holding out: they ended up sitting in the mountains at 25B:1010 next to both Narvik and Sweden and thus had guaranteed general supply, since the Allies were not going to violate Swedish neutrality to try to cut the supply flow.)

Source:

Answer posted by John Astell at Yahoo Classic Europa mailing list on 16.07.2013 23:40.

Question:

Per rule 11.B.1 German supply depots must be transported to Norway. But
where do they originate? Can they appear (in unlimited numbers) in Denmark
(either on or off map)?

Answer:

Depot reinforcements appear the same as German ground unit
reinforcements.

Source:

Answer posted by John Astell at Yahoo Classic Europa mailing list on 16.07.2013 23:40.

Question:

Rule 13B (last sentence) says German air units may not start the game on Danish airbases. It doesn’t mention German ground units. May German ground units enter Denmark from the reinforcement chart in the ground movement phase? May they carry depots when doing so? May they use the Danish city as a port to enter the staging box?

Answer:

The only ways I see that German ground units and depot can enter Danish territory is by air transport or air drop. They cannot even enter Danish territory by naval transport give how “port” is defined in the rules. If you see a rule allowing German units to enter Denmark from the reinforcement chart in the ground movement phase, please cite it so that I can examine it.

In general, the rules tell you what CAN be done and do not list all the things that CANNOT be done, as the latter list is perhaps nearly infinite in scope. Some humorous examples: There is no rule stating that units cannot teleport themselves. However, they indeed cannot do. (If they could, there would be a rule on it.) There is no rule stating that units cannot time travel. However, you still cannot receive all your reinforcements on Turn 1. A more serious example: There is no rule stating that the Germans cannot deliver depots to Norway by submarine and avoid the chance of being sunk. However, even though this was something theoretically within their capabilities in some minor way, they cannot do this.

Source:

Answer posted by John Astell at Yahoo Classic Europa mailing list on 16.07.2013 23:40.

Question:

Are the Shetland Islands in play, i.e. may the Allied player land there and after having done so can the Allies set up a frozen lake airfield there? Can the Germans land on the Shetlands? (I don’t think that would be possible.) Could the Germans bomb the Shetlands?

Answer:

No offense, but I don’t have time to answer open ended questions that require me to read all the rules to cover what I believe may be trivial issues. If you’re willing to cite specific cases, the rules that support the case, and why this is important, I’ll look at it. Off hand, I would suggest you look at the definition of a port and then consider how this affects the
Shetlands.

Source:

Posted on Yahoo Europa Mailing List by John Astell on 16.07.2013 23:40

Question:

Rule 17D does not prohibit British Carriers, interdiction markers and CLAs from operating in the area east of the North Sea line (i.e. between Denmark and Norway), correct?

Answer:

Correct. Having played the Germans several times, in most cases I would particularly welcome any British carrier or interdiction marker operating in this area, where I would typically have maximum air power. Any short term advantage gained by RN here would likely be punished by VP losses due to bombing hits on the RN.

Source:

Posted on Yahoo Europa Mailing List by John Astell on 16.07.2013 23:40